Working Class, Middle Class, Upper Class, What is it?

[mutation]

C/mon Mute....your thoughts on soacial differences....am keen to hear your thoughts.......but IMHO your earlier post offering a  "short concise economic based definition" sums it up reasonably well.

Well if  I did it is probable that someone would moderate my post.
I intentionally based the other one on financial rather than personal or social because the other would start some conflict at least.


Mutation

[Crankenstein]

Oh I'm not bothered by it at all Jen 

To be honest if i was worried about money i would not be pursuing a teaching degree. I don't live luxuriously, i don't really live entirely comfortably either, but I'm happy with what i have, and to me that's all that matters. I actually take a bit of pride in just how far i can stretch a dollar...

I have a purpose in life, and to me that's much more important than the balance of my bank account, the suburb i live in, the clothes i wear, and whether or not i buy label brands.

[Senexx]

Mutation, we'll grant you a special exemption this once.  Well I'm sure the mods and admins will because I am not authorised too.

So Middle Class welfare is when you receive government benefits (money) when you derive at least a proportion of your income from investments like shares or property rental and have some plan for an income stream after retirement?

Doesn't that make everyone with Superannuation middle class?

[mutation]

Mutation, we'll grant you a special exemption this once.  Well I'm sure the mods and admins will because I am not authorised too.

So Middle Class welfare is when you receive government benefits (money) when you derive at least a proportion of your income from investments like shares or property rental and have some plan for an income stream after retirement?

Doesn't that make everyone with Superannuation middle class?

You could read t that way but in all fairness someone who only has super and a small amount at that would clearly fit into the Working Class category.
Like most things a little commonsense discretion is needed in some cases. If you were making it a legal definition you would need to reach a certain % of income for this classification to be justified. Though treating people differently under the law because of some socio economic line in the sand is plainly wrong and inequitable!


Mutation

[bambu]

"Most baby boomers are going into retirement with debt" -radio news.

Of course they are...the cost of everything has increased...and they had nowhere near enough superannuation as they were only born after the war and superannuarion was not compulsory and was then only 3-5%.

Most got booted out of their jobs while in their 50's...'age discrimination' and redundancies, cheap labour the new god.

The middle class has vanished...look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered.

[Senexx]

I actually think it a rather flawed question (no offense intended) its just that each perceived class will have a different definition of each other class.
 I mean I could give you several valid definitions of each class but none of them will tell you anything meaningful about the people despite everybody rushing to label everybody with money as a prick it is simply not true and is probably the result of envy or inverted snobbery!

In the name of brevity I Offer this short concise economic based definition

Working Class = Obtains income from one or more jobs where the pay is directly proportional to the time they work! Probably has no investments or substantial plan for income after retirement aside from compulsory super and the pension !

Middle class = Has one or more jobs but also derives at least a proportion of their income from investments like shares or property rental and has some plan for an income stream after retirement.

Upper class = May or may not have a job but in either case in not dependent on it for income. Have passive income that does not require any personal effort like investments savings etc and generally has no problem spending less that their income streams create and therefore have increasing net worth without lifestyle sacrifice !


I was tempted to do one based on social differences but i didnt need all the complaints that I had offended some pathetic group or another !



Mutation

Wondering if we all agree with this?

[Chris]

Working Class = Obtains income from one or more jobs where the pay is directly proportional to the time they work!

Middle class = Has one or more jobs but also derives at least a proportion of their income from investments like shares or property rental and has some plan for an income stream after retirement.

Upper class = May or may not have a job but in either case in not dependent on it for income. Have passive income that does not require any personal effort like investments savings etc and generally has no problem spending less hat their income streams create and therefore have increasing net worth without lifestyle sacrifice!

Wondering if we all agree with this?

Not totally no. In financial terms I think the main differences are that:

a) The 'working class' tend to be paid fixed hourly rates depending on agreements that can be individually based or fixed by stature or negotiation by unions etc. Performance based bonuses etc are unusual at this level.

b) The 'middle class' tends to be salaried and often has a proportion of their total remuneration package in the form of 'bonuses', retention deals such as share offers, and access to 'perks' such as car leasing.

c) The 'upper classes' are those who have an independent income that is higher than those on a state or superannuation assisted pension. This income is usually derived from sources other than the results of their own intellectual input!

This of course is intended to relate to Australian society. In the UK (and much of Europe) the Upper Classes would also include the impoverished aristocracy who still cling to their titles despite their families having lost most or all of the the wealth. This group adopt and display the manners and mannerisms that their forefathers would have used when they still had power and/or influence.

I'd say my idea of what constitutes 'middle class' differs somewhat from Mutation's definition.

[Crankenstein]

I disagree with this part:

"Have passive income that does not require any personal effort like investments savings etc and generally has no problem spending less that their income streams create and therefore have increasing net worth without lifestyle sacrifice !"

I'm a student who gets 100% of his income from welfare. As I have said in this thread already, according to one of my textbooks I'm living in POVERTY.However, I still manage to put a little money away each and every week for a rainy day.

[Bravus]

Yeah, it's a very slippery thing, and despite Australia's pretensions to being a 'classless society' there are clear class markers in dress, attitude, language, accent, tastes, interests and so on between different groups.

Chris had one reasonable economic dividing line: hourly rates versus salary. Typically middle class/professional roles pay a salary rather than hourly rates with the associated clocking in and clocking out.

My parents were definitely working class people who worked hard all their lives, in a food factory as factory hands for large parts of their lives. But part of the reason they did that was to give my siblings and me a good education and a good start in life so that we could become middle class. And we have.

No particular class has a monopoly on either vice or virtue: we're all just people. I know some very wealthy people who are also good people, and also some who... aren't.

In a sense the working class in Australia is complicated by two things.

One is the shortage of skilled workers pushing prices up. I've worked and studied hard, and make a very good salary, but pretty much any tradesman I care to call out is going to be making twice as much an hour, and probably twice as much a year, as me. So in terms of wealth, tradies don't fit neatly in the working class any more, but in terms of some of the other markers they do.

The other is what I guess could be called the 'underclass', though that sounds disparaging and it's not meant to. By that I mean the multigeneration unemployed. They're sometimes called 'bogans', but that's not a useful label either. People who have not been served well by either their parents or their education, who didn't have role models and who largely live on welfare in one way or another. Generally quite different people from the working class.

At the other end of the spectrum, Australia doesn't have a hereditary peerage, so the 'upper class' ends up being either simply the wealthy or celebrities...